I just read Eugene's post about Subclipse withdrawing their project proposal from Eclipse. He points at a well written statement by Mark Phippard explaining why. I guess they have their reasons. But it would have been nice to see something posted on their project proposal newsgroup about this.
I got involved in this Subclipse versus Subversive debate when we were discussing moving to subversion on the cdt-dev mailing list. In the discussion of Eclipse clients, I mentioned that when I tried them I preferred Subversive. And actually, with some recent trials I did for work, I still prefer Subversive. Mark made a somewhat nasty reply to my comments. He made me feel bad for going against Subclipse. And in my searches for other peoples opinions, I more often than not saw him comment the same in support of Subclipse, and I'm sure he'll comment here. I certainly commend him for standing up for his project and I sometimes do the same for the CDT, but I try to be more polite about it.
So, I guess that means Subversive wins at Eclipse. From my seat, and others have a right to disagree, but I am talking about my seat not theirs, having one project is a good thing. In reality, I don't care who wins, but I do care that we produce a good subversion client for Eclipse and I don't see how two competing projects helps anyone. They do, or are intended to do, the exact same thing. In fact, they almost look identical. I almost had to check the features list to make sure which one I had.
But I think we have a long way to go to get subversion client support up to the same capabilities as CVS. Having one project that we can all work on will help make that happen. My intention is recommend moving the CDT to subversion over the summer, but only if the client meets our needs. That means we on the CDT have a vested interest in making that happen. And I know how to make patches and attach them to bugzillas, so I can't wait to get some time on it. And I will spend time on Subversive because it is an Eclipse project. So will others in the Eclipse community, because of that sense of community that is Eclipse. That's something I think the Subclipse guys forgot to take into consideration.
Wednesday, April 25, 2007
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Eugene jumped the gun a bit. I emailed Bjorn to let him know and cc:ed Eugene. I said in the email that I was not going to announce this on our mailing lists until later in the week as I wanted to give Bjorn time to comment. Eugene must have missed that part of the email or I was not explicit enough.
Not that it really matters, I just wanted you to know Bjorn was the first person we told.
Sorry you feel I was nasty, I certainly did not intend to be.
Mark
Thanks, Mark. I appreciate the note. I still have hope that we can bring these two communities to gether for the good of all Eclipse Subversion client users.
You'll note from Bjorn's comments on EclipseZone that there's really not much interest in making subversion clients part of the general supported platform, whilst the Team/CVS gets given the priority.
I believe Bjorn is on vacation this week, so his response might be delayed.
People, this has nothing to do with Bjorn :)
As for getting Subversive into the platform, of course it won't happen. The Team team, if you can call Mike Valenta a team, doesn't have enough resources to maintain it. In fact, he'd rather get CVS support out of the platform and allow you to choose which one you want and form a new community around CVS support.
I think, for me as user id does not matter who "wins". I would be happy if these two projects would come together and provide us the best of both - Already integrated like CVS.
I think Subversion will get more and more weight on market and it would be greate to have it already included in Eclipse.
While it may be true that Subversion support will not be added to the platform, did anybody think of the Eclipse Packing Project? There's no reason why an exemplary Eclipse "Java IDE" product can't have Subversion support.
Of course, it may require some input into that project...
Mark, Sorry if I misunderstood your intention and rushed things a bit. I didn't think that we have to wait for Bjorn approval for the withdrawal. :-)
Doug, I am not sure what you mean by "Subversive wins at Eclipse". Last time I checked their project page it was blank, even so their project approval happens quite while ago.
That's why I qualified it with "I guess". This whole thing is a bit disfunctional. At least I posted to their newsgroup to ask what's up.
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